Below is a discussion that I had with an athiest Buddhist. I have just copied it here as it is, so please ignore the mistakes in gramamr, spellings etc. A lot of his allegations were copy/pastes from hate sites but all have been answered here.
Buddhist: the FOUR NOBLE TRUTHS:
1. Life is difficult, it holds for living beings imperfections and suffering
2. This difficulty or "dukkha" is caused by desire for things to be other than what they are. This includes attachment, craving, envy, jealousy, grasping etc
3. Desire can be removed and thus an end to the difficulties and suffering of life
4. The way to do this is to follow the Eightfold Path a training in wisdom, ethic
Muhammad never realized or believed in these four noble truths of Buddha. All Muhammad said was GOD is one and polytheism was wrong. He also spewed hatred on monotheistic Jews of Arabia and called them pigs and apes. Gautama Buddha never used to abuse anyone. Muhammad never knew the eightfold path too. He in fact never abstained from material desires as he said they were all lawful under Allah’s eyes and only prohibit taking intoxicants during prayers. Muhammad advocated complete submission to Allah and he never spoke of self-realization and wiping away misery through detachment. In fact he desired for all kinds of materialistic pleasures. So, we can easily come to a conclusion that Muhammad is not the enlightened one in terms of Buddhism.
Muslim: 1. Life is difficult, it holds for living beings imperfections and suffering
Muslims agree and Muhammad pbuh taught this as well.
2. This difficulty or "dukkha" is caused by desire for things to be other than what they are. This includes attachment, craving, envy, jealousy, grasping etc
Muslims again agree but does Buddha define these desires?
NO. Prophet Muhammad pbuh does define them.
3. Desire can be removed and thus an end to the difficulties and suffering of life
Muslims agree and Prophet Muhammad pbuh gave us a complete way of life which is his Sunnah.
4. The way to do this is to follow the Eightfold Path a training in wisdom, ethic
Muslims agree, below are links that describe this path better.
The life
The law
Buddhist: Muhammad never realized or believed in these four noble truths of Buddha. All Muhammad said was GOD is one and polytheism was wrong.
Muslim: I have given the links above to this funny imagination.
Buddhist:He also spewed hatred on monotheistic Jews of Arabia and called them pigs and apes.
Muslim: The jews of Madina were not monothiestic, they used to call Ezra son of God. Nobody called anyone pigs and apes. The Jewish books agree that it was a punishment on some people among them.
Buddhist: He in fact never abstained from material desires as he said they were all lawful under Allah’s eyes and only prohibit taking intoxicants during prayers.
Muslim: Another lie. Alcohol is prohibited not just during prayers but at all times, you need to get some knowledge before making your imagination into your words.
I have said it above, what are material desires defined by Buddha?
None, he doesn't define material desires as anything that Islam allows. Buddha's law was only for the people of that time and in that region. He doesn't define material desires but Prophet Muhammad pbuh does and orders to abstain from them.
Buddhist: Sahih Bukhari
Volume 4, Book 54, Number 537:
The Prophet said "If a house fly falls in the drink of anyone of you, he should dip it (in the drink), for one of its wings has a disease and the other has the cure for the disease."
What kind of science is this? Is this the knowledge of one who knows the universe? You can see from this link that house flies cause several diseases:
Muslim: Go and learn science first. One side of the fly contains germs whereas the other side contains its cure. This is a scientific miracle which Prophet Muhammad pbuh has describes for us.
Explanation of this fact
More miracles as prophecised by Buddha
Buddhist: You can see this man at one point of time say’s that Allah forgave a woman who saved a dog from thirst. It shows as though Allah and Muhammad love dogs. But in later hadiths he expresses his hatred of dogs and says having a dog will make you lose reward from Allah! What kind of logic does this man hold to be called as “Knowing the Universe”?
Muslim: You seriously need to get out of these anti-Islamic websites. The woman was forgiven because of saving the life of a dog. You have no problem with that.
Prophet pbuh never said that dogs should be killed, you are quoting totally out of context, rabid dogs should be killed. About the part of losing one qirat daily for keeping dogs, this shows that you are selecting some Hadith and not selecting others. Dogs are not allowed to be kept in Islam for pleasure but the Prophet pbuh also said that if one keeps them for hunting or farming purposes, then there is no sin. The saliva of the dog is very unclean and if you know science, you will agree.
Buddhist: Leader, Master of Angels and Mortals
Muhammad was leader of a clan of tribes at medina who willed to adopt Islam. Calling him master of angels and mortals is like committing blasphemy against Islam or going against the Qur’an.
The Qur’an says the following:
006.062:
Then are they (humans) sent back to Allah, their Master, the True one; now surely His is the judgment and He is swiftest in taking account.
012.021
And the Egyptian who bought him said to his wife: Give him an honorable abode, maybe he will be useful to us, or we may adopt him as a son. And thus did We establish Yusuf in the land and that We might teach him the interpretation of sayings; and Allah is the master of His affair, but most people do not know.
001.004
Master of the Day of Judgment.(Allah)
Muslim: Leader
You also agree, no problem with this one.
Master of angels and mortals
The verses you quoted above by no means prove anything. They show that Allah is the master of the people. You have no knowledge about the position of angels in Islam. Angels have no free will and obey the orders given to them by God. Prophets are messengers of God, so if a Prophet wants help in his mission, angels help them by the will of God.
The Qur’an also mentions many a times that Allah is the creator and the master of Angels, Men, Jinns, etc. Now Muhammad was not a master to angels or are we supposed to assume that he was a partner of Allah? Muhammad was not the master of mortals. There are nearly 4.5 billion kuffars on this earth. The Qur’an claims Muhammad to be just a messenger of GOD and told Muhammad not to interfere in affairs of men as control is with ALLAH.
God is the master of all people but if the athiests don't believe in God, then does that mean that God is no longer the master?
NO. Even if you don't believe in your master, he still is your master and you will find that out after death.
Buddhist: Good and Evil
Islam -What God loves is good. What god hates is evil. God created evil.
Buddhism-Good and Evil are illusory categorizations of phenomena based upon the human predilection for passion, aggression, and ignorance. The correct and desirable values are clarity and appropriateness to context.
Muslim: Muslims agree with the Buddhist concept as well. One can believe in both concepts, accepting one concept does not make the other one wrong. God did not create evil, God created everything and Satan works for evil, God has allowed him this till the last day.
Buddhist: The existence and nature of God
Islam - God is one being. He created the universe. He is
He will judge the world, reward the good, and punish the evil. One must believe in ALLAH and his messengers and go to Hajj and offer salat.
Buddha maintained 'noble silence' on the question of the existence of 'God'. Buddha said the question was immaterial to his simple teachings on the roots of anquish and how to end it. Furthurmore, speculation on such a subject was a waste of time.
Muslim: No answer does not mean no God. That religion was meant for those people for that time, they couldn't have understood God, so Buddha didn't give them too much information and he himself says that the last Buddha will come and tell you abou many things. Now that He has come, you must accept Him.
Buddhist: Buddhism-Several..schools of Buddhism, particularly the Tibetan schools, have as part of their dogma...dieties..gods and goddesses. These refer to any being who is higher spiritually or materially than an ordinary human being (bodhisatva or an arhat)and should not to be confused with the general conception in theistic religions of omnipotent power..God, Jehovah, Allah
Muslim: Talk about the original Buddhist book, don't bring man made concepts in the discussion.
Buddhist: Salvation
islam-Submit utterly and completely to the will of God and trust utterly and completely in His Will. Take the writings of Muhammed as absolute guidance to correct moral action. Your reward will be an eternal life of God-induced bliss. The reward is admission to heaven with 72 virgins and fruits and rivers of wine.
buddhism- Salvation is liberation from enslavement to the cycle of passion, aggression and ignorance. The means to this end is naked confrontation of the bare phenomenological facts of your existence. The obstacle is the human tendency to distraction in terms of passion, aggression, and ignorance. The correct response is practice at remaining clear (meditation). The reward is the capacity to see clearly and choose appropriately in any situation, thus being liberated from the domination of passion, aggression, and ignorance.
Muslim: You said that in Islam Submit utterly and completely to the will of God and trust utterly and completely in His Will but forgot to mention about what is the will of God in Islam, it is the same will that Buddha taught. Maybe you don't know the will of God in Islam. Read this, you will know.
http://www.geocities.com/masad02/
Your explanation about islam is incomplete and out of context on many occasions.
Buddhist: When I give a bread loaf to a poor man and say, “this has been given to you by me as a mercy for the poor”. This means, out of my mercy I gave the poor the loaf for them to eat. It does not mean the loaf of bread is merciful. Furthermore if you reject what I give you and then I decide to punish you, that is the sign that I am vengeful psychopath and not a merciful person
Muslim: This is your own incorrect interpretation. Buddha never taught such incorrect imaginations. If you give me a bread and for not thanking you, you punish men does not mean that you are a vengeful, merciless person. The one who created does not punish anyone uselessly.
If we take your interpretation, then the whole world would be thankless and there would be no concept of manners. God is not cruel to anyone. God has given us a path and by not following that path, we are being cruel to ourselves.
Maitri
Whichever way you translate it, the meaning behind does not change. Prophet Muhammad pbuh's name Muhammad and Ahmed have these meanings.
Buddhist: Buddha’s doctrine was Esoteric and Exoteric:
According to the Sacred Books of the East, volume 11, pg. 36 Maha-Parinibbana Sutta chapter 2 verse 32:
"I have preached the truth without making any distinction between exoteric and esoteric doctrine, for in respect of truths, Ananda, the Tathagata has no such thing as the closed fist of a teacher, who keeps something back".
Muhammad (pbuh) on the commandment of Almighty God delivered the message and doctrine without making any distinction between esoteric and exoteric. The Qur'an was recited in public in the days of the Prophet and is being done so till date. The Prophet had strictly forbidden the Muslims from hiding the doctrine.
Muslim: Very funny, read again and read again the other translation you yourself gave. This shows that Buddha and Muhammad pbuh adopted the same style of preaching. This shows that you are copy/pasting without reading.
Buddhist: So, the hiding or not hiding factor does not hold good for Muhammad, because he intentionally wanted to pose himself as a messenger of God and so he did not hide. Whereas Buddha never claimed to be a messenger of God. He wanted his Dharma to be visible so that people who wanted to escape misery can adopt his teachings.
Muslim: You are not quoting many Hadith that should be quoted maybe because you have never heard of them as you are only copy/pasting from sites without reading.
God ordered that whatever has been revealed should not be kept secret but what God has taught Muhammad pbuh to not be told is kept secret and many many things are known only to God, for example, if you read Quran, no one except God knows the time of the day of judgement, no one knows about his life, death. Muhammad pbuh gave only the part that the people should know and that was the law given to people by God but what should not be told is not told and only God knows about all this.
This proves that the Buddha promised by Buddha is Muhammad pbuh and no one else.
Buddhist: Buddhism teaches abt rebirth but islam dont give any hint of that
Muslim: Buddhism doesn't teach about rebirth, this is a manmade concept. It only talks about a life after death and does not talk about continuous death and birth.
Buddhist: Buddhism teaches,
1. Right View Wisdom
2. Right Intention
3. Right Speech Ethical Conduct
4. Right Action
5. Right Livelihood
6. Right Effort Mental Development
7. Right Mindfulness
8. Right meditation(vipassana)
Islam doesn't teach these.
Muslim: Open the links again, you will see that Prophet Muhamad pbuh taught a lot more than just 8 points. His teachings contain the 8 points plus alot more.
There is not a single religion that doesn't teach these things. Even Hinduism teaches these things. Infact, hindus claim that Buddhism has copied these from them.
Buddhist: if muslim believes in buddhist concept of evil and good ,then they must also believe each and every concept of buddhism and so must also believe concept of rebirth and non exis tence of soul
Muslim: Sorry, Buddhism does not agree with this nonsense.
Buddhist: at last time on buddhas just moment b4 death,ananda did grieve saying that it was too early to buddha to attain parinibaana then buddha did say to ananda that he has taught wat ever he discovered , he told every thing he knew there is nothing left for the exhalted one to say
Muslim: Absolutely, there is nothing left for Buddha to say but the man to come will definitely teach a lot that Buddha doesn't know.
Buddhism was only for those people for that time and for that time Buddha had nothing more to say.
Buddhist: buddhist teaching is all abt
sila-Ethical Conduct
samadhi-Wisdom meditation
pragnya-Mental Development insights
and nothing such is in islam
Muslim: I challenge you to point out a single religion that doesn't have these teachings other than jungle paganism. The Sunnah of the Prophet provide a complete way of life, that way of life is far greater than what anyone has ever taught, open the links provided to see what they contain. All 8 points are contained in all religions and there is nothing special about these points. Tell me one religion that does not contain these 8 points.
Buddhist: first of all u said that rebirth is mAN MADE CONCEPT AND gotama buddha never taught abt it to us
ppl will laugh at u if u say it in public
buddha taught the concept of nirvana ,nirvana is nothing but blowing out of cycle of rebirth
and how can u say that buddha did not teach nirvana
the whole jatakas r based on concept of rebirth http://www.buddhanet.net/bt_intro.htm
http://www.columbia.edu/itc/mealac/pritchett/00ambedkar/ambedkar_buddha/04_02.html#01_01
check this from Alagaddupamma-Sutta of tripitakas buddha talking about rebirth
and also these of rebirth http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/nyanatiloka/wheel394.html#ch2
from the buddhist scriptures
and also look at wat is rebirth and rebirth of whome
Muslim: Just like Hinduism, Buddhism also believes in the concept of rebirth but nowhere does it talk about being born and dying seven times. Islam also believes in rebirth but only once.
Buddhist: the rebirth in hinduism is through transmigaration of soul
where as buddhism not only denies existence of soul but also denies transmigaration of soul
the rebirth in buddhism is without transmigaration of soul
http://www.columbia.edu/itc/mealac/pritchett/00ambedkar/ambedkar_buddha/03_04.html#04
and yes it talks abt continuous rebirth after death
buddhist term of enlightment m erely means blowing outt of that cycle
i ve given u jataka http://web.ukonline.co.uk/buddhism/jataka.htm
u can check if u want
Muslim: Here is a point from the link.
The soul is unknown and unseen
This does not mean that there is no soul. It is only unknown and unseen.
The link that you provided does notcontain your claim of 7 births and deaths.
Buddhist: buddhas teaching is fitted to every culture
every life style
every generation
b cos buddhas teaching is not speculation
buddhas teachings r not revealation
buddhas teachings r not imagination
buddhas teachings are practical
buddhas teachings dhamma(laws of nature)
Muslim: How does it suit everyone? All he says is to meditate, to leave the world, go to mountain top, leave marriage, leave the world, don't eat good etc etc.
Most of it are imagination and incomplete. For example, in the link above it says that the soul is unknown and unseen, then how come you are saying that Buddha knew everything and taught everything that was meant to be taught?
Buddhist: b cos buddhas teaching is not speculation
buddhas teachings r not revealation
buddhas teachings r not imagination
buddhas teachings are practical
buddhas teachings dhamma(laws of nature)
u ve further said
How does it suit everyone? All he says is to meditate, to leave the world, go to mountain top, leave marriage, leave the world, don't eat good etc etc.
Most of it are imagination and incomplete. For example, in the link above it says that the soul is unknown and unseen, then how come you are saying that Buddha knew everything and taught everything that was meant to be taught?
every one can meditate irrespective of caste , coustoms , traditions ,creed ,sex and age
does he say to leave the world
thats not true either , i believe you are thinking that buddhism is only for monks thats not at all true ,buddha never ask every one to leave the world
go to mountain top , i really dont know who told u this
leave marriage , thats only 4 monks not to lay person
Muslim: The link that you gave about the soul is not supported by references from Buddhist scriptures, this is the writers thought. Had Buddha said it himself, then it would have been different. Continue to read forward, there are many contradictions. The writer first says, no soul and then continues to describe it somehow.
every one can meditate irrespective of caste , coustoms , traditions ,creed ,sex and age
To meditate the way Buddha wants you to, you have to leave the daily affairs. This is not at all practical.
The points about not marrying are only for monks. Monks are supposed to be better people than the rest. So this argument leaves the conclusion that the present people in the world are all unclean, filthy etc as they all marry and are product of marriage. If good people don't marry, then good is supposed to end.
Detachment Within Activity or right concentration.
Hindus also meditate, so do people of all religions. Hindus meditate the same way as Buddhists, actually they claim that Buddhism took the meditation from them. This feature is present in all religions.
Buddhist: in the Cakkavatti-Sihanada Sutta (DN 26; The Lion's Roar on the Turning of the Wheel):
[The Buddha:] And in that time of the people with an eighty-thousand-year life-span, there will arise in the world a Blessed Lord, an arahant fully enlightened Buddha named Metteyya, endowed with wisdom and conduct, a Well-farer, Knower of the worlds, incomparable Trainer of men to be tamed, Teacher of gods and humans, enlightened and blessed, just as I am now.
Muslim: 80000 years
The prophecies above about the coming of Maitreya are in the following books:
Chakkavatti Sinhnad Suttanta
Sacred Books of the East
Gospel of Buddha
The idea of 80,000 years is in the following book:
Cakkavatti-Sihanada Sutta
This is a Sri Lankan book, it is about philospohies and is not a valid book. Buddha did not live in Sri Lanka. Many of the philosophies in this book are questioned by people for their authenticity and validity.
If you read this book, you will see that it is not even written by Buddha or dictated by Buddha or even taught by Buddha. This is a story and not even a prophecy. If you can show such words coming out from the mouth of Buddha, I will accept them.
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